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You’re correct Russ. You need to undergo marriage counseling before getting a Catholic wedding, though here in Poland you can get that counseling as part of your High School course in your elective Religion classes.
But still, Bobby is right: there are two spheres to a marriage, the church one and the legal one. I’m afraid that if they won’t cook up some special excuse, like lying about being barren or suffering from a life-threatening disease, it’s gonna be hard to obtain a Church divorce.
Yeah, Minstrel here in Poland it is horrible! I so hate some of the rules. But still the Comic is great. keep on the good work. And even though Stasia looks great in second panel her hand looks a little bit odd.
“But what does it mean to \“effort information\”?”
Interestingly couldn’t find the term in my trusted always up to date online dictionary. But from the context i would assume it means they are trying their best to figure it out.
Well, as I think someone else pointed out. Oklahoma does have a common law marriage that is based around “representing” yourself as married.
Not sure how that applies here, as it was primarily designed to deal with people who “married” but didn’t have a record of a marriage license- which was not usual for frontiers- thus insuring that those who considered themselves married would be treated as married.
So, under literal interpretation they might be married… it might come down to the fact that they actually did believe they were getting married… although I think there was something in the law about consummating the marriage… which suggests that they are not married- yet.
Erm, just out of curiousity, isn’t this gonna cause trouble when you start using really existing hotels?
Assuming you didn’t already ask for permission to use their name.
“I dunno, seems to me like they’re just giving the hotel free advertising so long as they portray it positively.”
Problem is they might not want that. I’m fairly sure they got that name registered as trademark. To them it might be advertisement but it might backfire too, depending on how the story will advance inside the hotel…
I know this sounds like splitting hair and totally unimportant atm as the comic will probably not have the necessary popularity to have a serious impact atm but it might not stay that way and better settle things now than regret later.
Unless he’s using this comic to make money, I highly doubt that they’ll care enough. All sorts of names and places get tossed around in webcomics, and I’ve yet to hear of anyone getting sued because they used a name/place in one. Chances are, they’ll never hear of this unless it gets reported. If they care, they’ll send a cease and desist order first, most likely, and sue afterwards. Finally, if it does get to the point where he needs to obtain permission, I’m sure it’ll be dealt with then.
I love the comment, “That would be zero percent accurate.” High expectations for the rest of the book, eh?
I think permission using an area is only really necessary when filming it as a location… I’ve seen millions of comics, online and offline, pros and amateurs, using actual places and locations and I really doubt all of these comics actually asks for permission from the location itself if they can use the location inside the comic…
(hell, for instance, in the recent Amazons Attack and Wonder Woman comics, they just destroyed the Washington Monument and using Abraham Lincoln’s Memorial in that comic and it’s definitely not used in a positive manner)
(and some Japanese comic that has an american setting used some real locations like hotels too and I really doubt they’d actually go up to the hotel to ask for permission… granted, when the creators made it it was for a Japanese audience but when it’s translated and brought here, everything is maintained including hotel names and somehow I don’t see the translators going to the hotels and locations asking for permissions to use the location… heck, I’ve used some local locations in my printed comics (local as in Malaysia) for a large print magazine in Malaysia and I never asked for permission to use it and so far, none of the owners of said location ever came up to me and seek legal actions… in any case, it’s just a comic, we’re only portraying the likeness of their location in it, we’re not actually using the area itself, so I think it’s okay not to get permission)
I love that the scary lawyers are drinking their coffees at exactly the same time. Also, it looks like poor Janny is getting a little frustrated wtih this whole thing. I certainly don’t blame her…
Doesn’t matter in any way whatsoever. As someone else said, the worst that could happen is insanely being sent a cease and desist order and the hotel name could easily be changed if need be, but there’s essentially zero chance of that happening. It’s a common misconception that comics should worry about crap like this — doesn’t matter AT ALL. Some comics very stupidly change the names of popular things in fear of being sued, like I saw one that insanely didn’t even say MYSPACE, but instead called it YOUSPACE or something like that, and I think even with that they had a note at the bottom of the comic saying “Please don’t sue!” Those people are retarded morons.
I understand that it’s foreshortening and all, but Stasia’s hand in the forth panel just… doesn’t sit well with me. o0 It kinda looks like it’s shriveled up or something. >_
“Some comics very stupidly change the names of popular things in fear of being sued, like I saw one that insanely didn’t even say MYSPACE, but instead called it YOUSPACE or something like that, and I think even with that they had a note at the bottom of the comic saying “Please don’t sue!” Those people are retarded morons.”
Bobby, whether it seems stupid or not, some people actually WILL sue, so I can’t blame the comic writers for changing things, y’know? People are greedy; they’ll take what they can.
“Bobby, whether it seems stupid or not, some people actually WILL sue . . .”
I don’t think so, no. I’m just about 100% sure that there’s NEVER been a case of someone suing a comic for doing something even REMOTELY similar to what MM did on this page.
I still don’t believe that “effort” can be verbed in that way in English. Maybe in Old French, “esforcier” but I can’t imagine even lawyer-bots speaking that way.
I’ve never heard of anyone “efforting” anything before. However, I have prayed to Teh Intarwebs and lo! I have been answered: Urban Dictionary says: “A made up word used only by newscasters to show off that they’re doing the job they’re paid to do. A poor attempt to make the word ‘effort’ into a verb. To make it sound like something simple is tough to do, so they’re making extra effort. Often used as a stall when a report isn’t ready.”
If Stasia’s lawyer-bots are using words like this, I’d immediately fire them for ineptitude, or if they must be kept around at least invert anything they conclude on the basis that they couldn’t possibly be right. Maybe that’s what Bobby was getting at? Maybe they actually newscastered in their former career?
“I’ve never heard of anyone ‘efforting’ anything before.”
I’ve heard it a million times. Not exclusive to newscasters, either. Even the words “currently efforting” in quotes produces 57 Google results.
“Maybe that’s what Bobby was getting at?”
Well, I do want them to seem like morons, yes, which is why the description for Panel 5 in the script begins with “Back to a close up of the lawyers, who are now simultaneously lifting cups of coffee to their mouths to take a drink, looking like they’re doing anything but ‘efforting.’ “
Thanks, Miguel. That Top Web Comics site is down often, which is annoying, so I don’t like leading people to a “server is down” page, and with the votes MM already has for the month, it’s guaranteed to stay in the top 12 even without getting any more votes, so it’s no big deal. I’ll have the voting button front and center early in June!
“Well, as I think someone else pointed out. Oklahoma does have a common law marriage that is based around “representing” yourself as married”
Actually, a ban was placed on Common Law Marriage in Oklahoma through a bill which gained popular support due to its better known ban on Gay Marriage. Of course, most of the Oklahomans I’ve talked to on the subject of this bill didn’t realize that it had anything to do with any subject other than the legality of Gay Marriage.
To anyone still worrying about needing permission to use locations, it’s my understanding that the only reason why films need permission to use locations for short periods of time is because the property owner(s) can be held responsible for any injuries that happen at that location. For longer shooting times I believe that you usually have to get some kind of insurance as well.
The matter of trademarked or copyrighted names is apparently a minor one when it comes to using locations.
“efforting” in this context can simply be translated as :
“Since we know you’re worth several 10’s of millions of dollars, we’re going to take our sweet time about it, meanwhile living off your expense in unabated luxury, and there’s nothing you can do about it.”
Lawyerese is a language in and off itself.. just like Managerese.
Although all of the fancy words simply tend to mean “we’re going to cost you a lot of money while doing bugger all.”
which is one of the reasons I want to be a laywer lol
, actually thats not true, I study Law at AS level and the legal system doe seem to be quite complex (then again I’m studying UK legal system which probably isn’t much use to refer to here)
Also how do we know the priest was Catholic? Catholic and some forms of protestant preachers do have similiae outfitting and he was never expressly stated as Catholic
He may have been doing it to be kind, to get things moving on or because he wanted 15 minutes of fame though it was probably the first one, I guess we’ll find out later (though hopefully not much later)
Did you hear about Michael Crook trying to sue bloggers for using an image of him from a Fox News broadcast that a) is public domain and b) had Fox News’ blessing because — get this! — — no, seriously, wait for it — Michael Crook claimed that he OWNED THE COPYRIGHT TO HIS OWN FACE. Yeah, he got slapped down pretty hard when it went to court because the only thing he could legally prove was that he was a moron.
“Efforting that information”…? Hm. I’ve decided that the female lawyer (who I’ve also decided goes by the name Teresa even though her parents actually named her Tinkerbell, after the recently-deceased family cat) is using a little-known definition of the word “efforting”, and that lawyer number two (whose name is Bruce) is consequently trying to figure out why he works with such an obvious blonde. These two pretend they don’t get along, but clearly they’ve got a fling. It’ll be a scandal when the administration finds out; inter-office dating is not permitted in the company charter.
…that was a very long, drawn out way of saying that “efforting” was used correctly. ^_~ It’s a more obscure use of the word, though.
Bobby and Eisu are in no way claiming to own or have any power what-so-ever when it comes to the hotel Ambassador; likewise with the usage of CNN. They’re portraying them as what they are; and therefore I see no reason to get permission for anything, even if the comic ends up huge.
Filming would most likely be a different- and more complex- affair, but that’s not the issue here. ^_^
On to today’s comics- WheeGuy. >.> Ahem. I also love the lawyer-bots’ suggestion of moving moving to a really expensive location, so they can waste time in luxurious and expensive surroundings.
Hope the stress doesn’t drive Janny into labour- that would be the dramatic icing on the cake of, erm, drama. Yeah, that metaphor died before I even started typing it. >.>
“Ban on Gay Marriage” in Oklahoma Common Law does not seem relevant here (after all, it is not Parker we are talking about). “Ban on Guy Marriage” would be.
Ahoj!
Catholic Priest or not, if the State of Oklahoma recognises a religious ceremony as equal to a civil marriage ceremony, they’re husband and wife.
fwiw, the Oxford English Dictionary says “effort” can be a verb. But it means “to strengthen, fortify,” which wouldn’t make sense in this context. Ahh, lawyers…
“Bobby and Eisu are in no way claiming to own or have any power what-so-ever when it comes to the hotel Ambassador; likewise with the usage of CNN. ”
It doesn’t matter. In theory Bobby could be issued with a cease and desist, or actually sued for ‘trading off the good name of Ambassador hotels’, in practice he won’t be. This is because it isn’t worth while to make a legal longshot at a small webcomic which is of very limited financial value - films are utterly different because they are worth a lot more money (which is why an attempt was made to sue on the Da Vinci code after it became a film but not before, and why films worry a lot more about this sort of thing). For example, a University lab I know was recently issued with a cease and desist because its name had the same 3 letter abbreviation as a company, but again a University is worth a lot more money than Bobby ever will be. The law does not in practice apply equally to everyone, and Bobby is right that web comics that think they are under the same restrictions as major motion pictures are being a little moronic.
Lipsnick: Vegas is in a different state and therefore has different marriage laws. When my fiance and I looked around at different state marriage requirements, we found that some require you to wait a few days between application and recieving the license, and others will hand it to you right away. What is allowed in Nevada is not necessarily allowed in Oklahoma.
David: If you’d read the “Ban on Gay Marriage” comment again, you’d see that Carlyarlyarly is saying that the gay marriage ban also banned common law marriages. So the “Ban on Gay Marriage” could turn out to be a “Ban on Guy Marriage” if there’s no other legal backing.
Just out of curiousity, how much research did you have to do before starting work on this, Bobby? Cuz it seems like you’ve got a good idea of where you want this to go, and how the laws work out and all, so it looks to me like you definitely spent a good amount of time on this.
The ambassador is a nice hotel. It’s in bum-town, though. So… if you draw a scene at night make sure to include some of the “locals.” heh.
In Oklahoma you have to get a marriage license to be married, however some people do it after their formal wedding ceremony. All Guy and Stasia would have to do is go down to the court house and get the paperwork.
To anyone still worrying about needing permission to use locations, it’s my understanding that the only reason why films need permission to use locations for short periods of time is because the property owner(s) can be held responsible for any injuries that happen at that location. For longer shooting times I believe that you usually have to get some kind of insurance as well.
The matter of trademarked or copyrighted names is apparently a minor one when it comes to using locations.
acctualy the property owners cant be held responcible so long as the building or location was safe befor filming, the film company is held responcible and they pay large insurance fees, the same is true of small indipendant films.
you need permission because the property is owned by someone else- just like you would need permission to use someones car or clothes, makeup ect.
also you need permission to photograph or film if you can see the name of a building or business (not inc tourists
ect)
at the end of the day as has been stated already the chances of the hotel doing anything is small to none- and when this is filmed they will either try to film in the ambassador (which will be great advertising) or film in a different hotel or create a set to look like a hotel (strangly the least likely option)
I don’t know Oklahoma law, but, most usually, religious figures have the authority to perform marriages, and all that is needed is submitting the necessary paperwork afterward. I think.
Really, this is a non-issue. If they want to be married, they can go to a county clerk’s office and get married, whatever the status of the prior ceremony. If they don’t, they can do the same and get it anulled.
“I don’t know Oklahoma law, but, most usually, religious figures have the authority to perform marriages, and all that is needed is submitting the necessary paperwork afterward. I think.” Apparently you still need to get the license in advance. The cleric then signs and submits it after the ceremony. What is not clear is what happens if you don’t get the license in advance - presumably the whole thing is just a charade, legally. What the Church thinks is another matter. In theory, they could be married according to the Church, but not according to Oklahoma.
“Just out of curiousity, how much research did you have to do before starting work on this, Bobby?”
Essentially zero. The legality of their marriage is a non-issue to this story, as I’ve said many times. Doesn’t matter at all if they’re legally married or not, but it does have to be briefly addressed in the story, since several of the characters are wondering about it and think it is a big deal at the moment.
About the law: There actually is a Title 43, Section 4, which I found in a quick Google search about Oklahoma marriage law just a few days ago. There may be certain ways around that, though, I don’t know. And obviously if they want to be married they could easily go do that, but they’re not actually going to go make it official, or at least not any time soon — no reason for it. All that matters, at the moment at least to Stasia, is the public perception.
“Well, I do want them to seem like morons, yes, which is why the description for Panel 5 in the script begins with “Back to a close up of the lawyers, who are now simultaneously lifting cups of coffee to their mouths to take a drink, looking like they’re doing anything but ‘efforting.’ “”
I ‘unno, Bobby sir. That made it seem to me that they were on top of things. You know, like, “Pft, I’ve SO got this covered. *Sip*”
And just wondering… Considering the dedication that “Stasia” made in her book, does that mean her dad is the one that ghostwrites her autobiographies? XD
Lord, “Ambassador Hotel” is such a generic name anyway… The first google page shows 8 different hotels named Ambassador Hotel. The most famous one, of course, is the one which was recently torn down in Los Angeles, which was the site of Bobby Kennedy’s assassination, and the location of the famous Hollywood hang-out, the Coconut Grove.
Having been on the wrong side of a cease and desist letter before, really it comes down to how strong the brand is that you’re mentioning, and how you are using it. For brands, like say, Dare America, they pay third parties to actively look for people to smack down, whether they’d actually win in court or not.
I agree any indie creator who worries about this needs to get a new set of self-importance in the right size…
The lateness on the next one is entirely my fault. Still haven’t even sent Eisu the script, gonna do that in about an hour, though. My guess is we’ll have it for Wednesday, but I’m not positive.
okay people, since there’s a debate about ‘copyright’ and stuff… i am going to use some examples as to why Bobby and Eisu won’t get in trouble… my first is Marvel comics: Spiderman’s set in New York, Fantastic Four is set in New York, XMen is set in Massachusetts, the buildings they work in may not be real but they throw around real places (in those cities) all the time… the have been doing so for, what, about 40-50 years? My second example is Manga… i don’t know how many times i have read a manga where something takes place or happens at Tokyo Tower, the character goes to a shinto shrine, a certain festival takes place during the storyline… The point is that writers (and artists) do it all the time… and there are others that for ‘fear’ change the name of something or create a whole new world… its really all up to the creator’s and how they want to set up the comic in the long run…
Yeah, it’s a totally pointless issue. The WORST case scenario, and this has almost ZERO chance of happening, is that at some point we have to change the name of the hotel, and that’s nothing bad at all. So who gives a crap? Total non-issue.
Just so people know, I did not change the comic names in NPP for ‘fear’ of copyright issues but it’s just for canonical issues… if I were to do Wolverine or Batman or Superman side-comics in NPP (a la Tigrine), then it can’t really be canon cos it’d just be a fan comic and that’s not fun… by parodying the characters, that gives it a more canon feel where I can do anything I want with them and not feel like it’s just a fan comic.
Using other people’s characters is actually something to be afraid of doing, though, much more than just some real life hotel. It depends on exactly how it’s done, of course, but in general you’re much more likely to get a cease and desist order for using someone else’s fictional characters than you are for using some real life business.
Question for Bobby…is this still a “work in progress,” or do you have the entire plot mapped out at this point? (Not that I think you need to make any changes…I’m just curious about your creative process.)
For most of the stories that I write, I have them almost entirely plotted out before even writing Page 1, but that’s unfortunately not the case for “Marry Me.” I had the story of the first 24 pages totally planned over four years ago, but to this day I haven’t fully decided on a lot of the middle and ending. I have known the final scene, though, since before I started writing it, and I guess I basically have the last few scenes mostly planned, but I still have to figure out the best way to get to that point. I pretty much know what’s going to happen in the next 12 pages or so, but then I’ll have a lot of big decisions to make and things to come up with. It’s also tough because it’s only scheduled for about 80 pages. Ideally it would be more like 120, but I was concerned about Eisu’s availability and I wanted to make sure I could have his art for the full graphic novel. It’s not a problem, though. The screenplay will simply have a lot more stuff in it than the comic.
A massive revolt starts, there’s fighting and fire and fury in the streets! Looting, rape, and pillaging abound. And who can stop it?
My guess would be either Abobo, Cheney-Tron, Those 2 lawyer-bots in a mecha, a gaggle of ninjas (or pirate-ninjas), or some fellow threatening to flog everybody with a pair of rubber gloves, or perhaps a nice, wooden cooking spoon.
Yours for random thoughts and love of comics,
Goat
Hahahahaha OMG my favourite part of this page is the lawyers. I’m final year Law myself and I just saw SHITLOADS of myself and my uni friends in those two. Right down to the takeaway coffee. XD
Did I post before? cant remeber. In-case I didnt, excelent comic.
About copyrights, you cant copyright a name or word. What you copyright is the right to use that name for your item, place of bussines, etc. So as long asy Bobby isnt trying to start up a hotel by the same name, its alright. YEah, some corporations do take it to extremes, but they realy dont have any stable ground under their feet when they do.
At least thats how I understand the issue.
This isn’t copyright law but trademark law. “Hotel Ambassador” is their trademark; the real question is whether Bobby’s use of the mark is an infringing use or a non-infringing use. No guarantee, but it’s pretty unlikely that this use of the mark is an infringing use.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:51 am
Wow, you’re right. It IS a nice place. First thing I saw when I clicked on it? The little ‘Wedding’ icon at the top. xD
May 27th, 2007 at 12:56 am
Ha, I didn’t notice that.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:17 am
Do we know if Guy and/or Stasia are even Catholic? I’m pretty sure the Church has requirements of counseling for couples before marriage.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:23 am
Stasia is so cute in the second panel. ♥ I would SO accidentally marry her.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:26 am
You’re correct Russ. You need to undergo marriage counseling before getting a Catholic wedding, though here in Poland you can get that counseling as part of your High School course in your elective Religion classes.
But still, Bobby is right: there are two spheres to a marriage, the church one and the legal one. I’m afraid that if they won’t cook up some special excuse, like lying about being barren or suffering from a life-threatening disease, it’s gonna be hard to obtain a Church divorce.
We are so Catholic it hurts sometimes.
May 27th, 2007 at 3:50 am
Yeah, Minstrel here in Poland it is horrible! I so hate some of the rules. But still the Comic is great. keep on the good work. And even though Stasia looks great in second panel her hand looks a little bit odd.
May 27th, 2007 at 5:57 am
Synchronized coffee drinking. Awesome.
May 27th, 2007 at 6:18 am
Haha, right, love the lawyer-bots. But what does it mean to “effort information”?
May 27th, 2007 at 7:46 am
I bet that priest was a sleeping terrorist aiming at sabotaging the fame and fortune of stasia.
*drinks coffee too*
May 27th, 2007 at 7:49 am
“But what does it mean to \“effort information\”?”
Interestingly couldn’t find the term in my trusted always up to date online dictionary. But from the context i would assume it means they are trying their best to figure it out.
May 27th, 2007 at 7:56 am
So, Minstrel, what you are saying is that they weren’t supposed to get married in the first place but now that they are it’s irrevocable?
May 27th, 2007 at 7:59 am
You know how people use big words to try to make themselves look smart?
I’ll bet that’s what they’re doing, those Lawyers.
XDD
‘We’re currently efforting that information.’
Translation:
‘We’re trying to figure that out, damnit.’
May 27th, 2007 at 8:02 am
Thosa lawyers sure are scary. O_o
Can’t wait to see the Hotel Ambassador!
May 27th, 2007 at 8:19 am
Well, as I think someone else pointed out. Oklahoma does have a common law marriage that is based around “representing” yourself as married.
Not sure how that applies here, as it was primarily designed to deal with people who “married” but didn’t have a record of a marriage license- which was not usual for frontiers- thus insuring that those who considered themselves married would be treated as married.
So, under literal interpretation they might be married… it might come down to the fact that they actually did believe they were getting married… although I think there was something in the law about consummating the marriage… which suggests that they are not married- yet.
May 27th, 2007 at 9:47 am
Swank! O . O
May 27th, 2007 at 10:00 am
Ahoj!
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM
more specifically
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3V.HTM
I am looking for the Polish version for other Polish members of this fan-club
Borys
May 27th, 2007 at 10:16 am
Szczęść Boże!
Found it!
http://separacja.pl/prawo-kanoniczne.html
Look for Kan.1055 onwards.
Borys
May 27th, 2007 at 11:11 am
Then again, they may not be religious at all, in which case this marriage may indeed be lawful.
I guess we will just have to wait and see.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:55 am
Erm, just out of curiousity, isn’t this gonna cause trouble when you start using really existing hotels?
Assuming you didn’t already ask for permission to use their name.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:59 am
No, no trouble at all. Also mentioned CNN earlier.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Yeah but CNN is a bit something different
May 27th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
The least i would do is contact them and ask if it’s ok. seriously
May 27th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Or (what most do) simply choose a fictional name
May 27th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
I dunno, seems to me like they’re just giving the hotel free advertising so long as they portray it positively.
May 27th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
I like their coffee. Mmm.
May 27th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
“I dunno, seems to me like they’re just giving the hotel free advertising so long as they portray it positively.”
Problem is they might not want that. I’m fairly sure they got that name registered as trademark. To them it might be advertisement but it might backfire too, depending on how the story will advance inside the hotel…
I know this sounds like splitting hair and totally unimportant atm as the comic will probably not have the necessary popularity to have a serious impact atm but it might not stay that way and better settle things now than regret later.
May 27th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
Unless he’s using this comic to make money, I highly doubt that they’ll care enough. All sorts of names and places get tossed around in webcomics, and I’ve yet to hear of anyone getting sued because they used a name/place in one. Chances are, they’ll never hear of this unless it gets reported. If they care, they’ll send a cease and desist order first, most likely, and sue afterwards. Finally, if it does get to the point where he needs to obtain permission, I’m sure it’ll be dealt with then.
I love the comment, “That would be zero percent accurate.” High expectations for the rest of the book, eh?
May 27th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
I think permission using an area is only really necessary when filming it as a location… I’ve seen millions of comics, online and offline, pros and amateurs, using actual places and locations and I really doubt all of these comics actually asks for permission from the location itself if they can use the location inside the comic…
May 27th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
(hell, for instance, in the recent Amazons Attack and Wonder Woman comics, they just destroyed the Washington Monument and using Abraham Lincoln’s Memorial in that comic and it’s definitely not used in a positive manner)
May 27th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
(and some Japanese comic that has an american setting used some real locations like hotels too and I really doubt they’d actually go up to the hotel to ask for permission… granted, when the creators made it it was for a Japanese audience but when it’s translated and brought here, everything is maintained including hotel names and somehow I don’t see the translators going to the hotels and locations asking for permissions to use the location… heck, I’ve used some local locations in my printed comics (local as in Malaysia) for a large print magazine in Malaysia and I never asked for permission to use it and so far, none of the owners of said location ever came up to me and seek legal actions… in any case, it’s just a comic, we’re only portraying the likeness of their location in it, we’re not actually using the area itself, so I think it’s okay not to get permission)
May 27th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
I love that the scary lawyers are drinking their coffees at exactly the same time. Also, it looks like poor Janny is getting a little frustrated wtih this whole thing. I certainly don’t blame her…
May 27th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
“Problem is they might not want that.”
Doesn’t matter in any way whatsoever. As someone else said, the worst that could happen is insanely being sent a cease and desist order and the hotel name could easily be changed if need be, but there’s essentially zero chance of that happening. It’s a common misconception that comics should worry about crap like this — doesn’t matter AT ALL. Some comics very stupidly change the names of popular things in fear of being sued, like I saw one that insanely didn’t even say MYSPACE, but instead called it YOUSPACE or something like that, and I think even with that they had a note at the bottom of the comic saying “Please don’t sue!” Those people are retarded morons.
May 27th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
I understand that it’s foreshortening and all, but Stasia’s hand in the forth panel just… doesn’t sit well with me. o0 It kinda looks like it’s shriveled up or something. >_
May 27th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
“Some comics very stupidly change the names of popular things in fear of being sued, like I saw one that insanely didn’t even say MYSPACE, but instead called it YOUSPACE or something like that, and I think even with that they had a note at the bottom of the comic saying “Please don’t sue!” Those people are retarded morons.”
Bobby, whether it seems stupid or not, some people actually WILL sue, so I can’t blame the comic writers for changing things, y’know? People are greedy; they’ll take what they can.
May 27th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
“Bobby, whether it seems stupid or not, some people actually WILL sue . . .”
I don’t think so, no. I’m just about 100% sure that there’s NEVER been a case of someone suing a comic for doing something even REMOTELY similar to what MM did on this page.
May 27th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
I still don’t believe that “effort” can be verbed in that way in English. Maybe in Old French, “esforcier” but I can’t imagine even lawyer-bots speaking that way.
I’ve never heard of anyone “efforting” anything before. However, I have prayed to Teh Intarwebs and lo! I have been answered:
Urban Dictionary says: “A made up word used only by newscasters to show off that they’re doing the job they’re paid to do. A poor attempt to make the word ‘effort’ into a verb. To make it sound like something simple is tough to do, so they’re making extra effort. Often used as a stall when a report isn’t ready.”
A grammar blog and a buzzword dictionary remarked on this “word” too.
If Stasia’s lawyer-bots are using words like this, I’d immediately fire them for ineptitude, or if they must be kept around at least invert anything they conclude on the basis that they couldn’t possibly be right. Maybe that’s what Bobby was getting at? Maybe they actually newscastered in their former career?
Verbing weirds language.
May 27th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
love the lawyers sipping their identically-sized coffees in sync.
May 27th, 2007 at 8:04 pm
“I’ve never heard of anyone ‘efforting’ anything before.”
I’ve heard it a million times. Not exclusive to newscasters, either. Even the words “currently efforting” in quotes produces 57 Google results.
“Maybe that’s what Bobby was getting at?”
Well, I do want them to seem like morons, yes, which is why the description for Panel 5 in the script begins with “Back to a close up of the lawyers, who are now simultaneously lifting cups of coffee to their mouths to take a drink, looking like they’re doing anything but ‘efforting.’ “
May 27th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Dude… why is the vote button at the end of the page. I’m soooo bored to scroll all the way down down everytime I vote 4 u.
BTW, love the comic, love the chars. Keep up the great work.
May 27th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
Thanks, Miguel. That Top Web Comics site is down often, which is annoying, so I don’t like leading people to a “server is down” page, and with the votes MM already has for the month, it’s guaranteed to stay in the top 12 even without getting any more votes, so it’s no big deal. I’ll have the voting button front and center early in June!
May 27th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
“Well, as I think someone else pointed out. Oklahoma does have a common law marriage that is based around “representing” yourself as married”
Actually, a ban was placed on Common Law Marriage in Oklahoma through a bill which gained popular support due to its better known ban on Gay Marriage. Of course, most of the Oklahomans I’ve talked to on the subject of this bill didn’t realize that it had anything to do with any subject other than the legality of Gay Marriage.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
Ever been to Vegas? 60 marriges in a minute.
May 28th, 2007 at 12:02 am
Ahoj!
Efforting makes me think of overcoming constipation ….
Borys
May 28th, 2007 at 1:45 am
To anyone still worrying about needing permission to use locations, it’s my understanding that the only reason why films need permission to use locations for short periods of time is because the property owner(s) can be held responsible for any injuries that happen at that location. For longer shooting times I believe that you usually have to get some kind of insurance as well.
The matter of trademarked or copyrighted names is apparently a minor one when it comes to using locations.
May 28th, 2007 at 2:40 am
“efforting” in this context can simply be translated as :
“Since we know you’re worth several 10’s of millions of dollars, we’re going to take our sweet time about it, meanwhile living off your expense in unabated luxury, and there’s nothing you can do about it.”
Lawyerese is a language in and off itself.. just like Managerese.
Although all of the fancy words simply tend to mean “we’re going to cost you a lot of money while doing bugger all.”
May 28th, 2007 at 4:17 am
which is one of the reasons I want to be a laywer lol
, actually thats not true, I study Law at AS level and the legal system doe seem to be quite complex (then again I’m studying UK legal system which probably isn’t much use to refer to here)
I read that Oklohoma only recongises Commin Law marriages before 1998 (here is a link to the site http://www.unmarried.org/common.html)
Also how do we know the priest was Catholic? Catholic and some forms of protestant preachers do have similiae outfitting and he was never expressly stated as Catholic
He may have been doing it to be kind, to get things moving on or because he wanted 15 minutes of fame though it was probably the first one, I guess we’ll find out later (though hopefully not much later)
May 28th, 2007 at 6:07 am
Did you hear about Michael Crook trying to sue bloggers for using an image of him from a Fox News broadcast that a) is public domain and b) had Fox News’ blessing because — get this! — — no, seriously, wait for it — Michael Crook claimed that he OWNED THE COPYRIGHT TO HIS OWN FACE. Yeah, he got slapped down pretty hard when it went to court because the only thing he could legally prove was that he was a moron.
May 28th, 2007 at 6:25 am
“Efforting that information”…? Hm. I’ve decided that the female lawyer (who I’ve also decided goes by the name Teresa even though her parents actually named her Tinkerbell, after the recently-deceased family cat) is using a little-known definition of the word “efforting”, and that lawyer number two (whose name is Bruce) is consequently trying to figure out why he works with such an obvious blonde. These two pretend they don’t get along, but clearly they’ve got a fling. It’ll be a scandal when the administration finds out; inter-office dating is not permitted in the company charter.
…that was a very long, drawn out way of saying that “efforting” was used correctly. ^_~ It’s a more obscure use of the word, though.
Great job! I love this page.
May 28th, 2007 at 6:27 am
Bobby and Eisu are in no way claiming to own or have any power what-so-ever when it comes to the hotel Ambassador; likewise with the usage of CNN. They’re portraying them as what they are; and therefore I see no reason to get permission for anything, even if the comic ends up huge.
Filming would most likely be a different- and more complex- affair, but that’s not the issue here. ^_^
On to today’s comics- WheeGuy. >.> Ahem. I also love the lawyer-bots’ suggestion of moving moving to a really expensive location, so they can waste time in luxurious and expensive surroundings.
Hope the stress doesn’t drive Janny into labour- that would be the dramatic icing on the cake of, erm, drama. Yeah, that metaphor died before I even started typing it. >.>
Roll on Wednesday!
May 28th, 2007 at 6:32 am
“Ban on Gay Marriage” in Oklahoma Common Law does not seem relevant here (after all, it is not Parker we are talking about). “Ban on Guy Marriage” would be.
May 28th, 2007 at 6:41 am
heh, Guy makes me giggle.
May 28th, 2007 at 7:31 am
Ahoj!
Catholic Priest or not, if the State of Oklahoma recognises a religious ceremony as equal to a civil marriage ceremony, they’re husband and wife.
Borys
May 28th, 2007 at 7:32 am
Ahoj!
As it is not possible to edit posts, I add “I think” to my previous post
Borys
May 28th, 2007 at 7:37 am
fwiw, the Oxford English Dictionary says “effort” can be a verb. But it means “to strengthen, fortify,” which wouldn’t make sense in this context. Ahh, lawyers…
Also, first comment! Love the comic!
May 28th, 2007 at 8:03 am
“Bobby and Eisu are in no way claiming to own or have any power what-so-ever when it comes to the hotel Ambassador; likewise with the usage of CNN. ”
It doesn’t matter. In theory Bobby could be issued with a cease and desist, or actually sued for ‘trading off the good name of Ambassador hotels’, in practice he won’t be. This is because it isn’t worth while to make a legal longshot at a small webcomic which is of very limited financial value - films are utterly different because they are worth a lot more money (which is why an attempt was made to sue on the Da Vinci code after it became a film but not before, and why films worry a lot more about this sort of thing). For example, a University lab I know was recently issued with a cease and desist because its name had the same 3 letter abbreviation as a company, but again a University is worth a lot more money than Bobby ever will be. The law does not in practice apply equally to everyone, and Bobby is right that web comics that think they are under the same restrictions as major motion pictures are being a little moronic.
May 28th, 2007 at 8:12 am
Lipsnick: Vegas is in a different state and therefore has different marriage laws. When my fiance and I looked around at different state marriage requirements, we found that some require you to wait a few days between application and recieving the license, and others will hand it to you right away. What is allowed in Nevada is not necessarily allowed in Oklahoma.
David: If you’d read the “Ban on Gay Marriage” comment again, you’d see that Carlyarlyarly is saying that the gay marriage ban also banned common law marriages. So the “Ban on Gay Marriage” could turn out to be a “Ban on Guy Marriage” if there’s no other legal backing.
Just out of curiousity, how much research did you have to do before starting work on this, Bobby? Cuz it seems like you’ve got a good idea of where you want this to go, and how the laws work out and all, so it looks to me like you definitely spent a good amount of time on this.
May 28th, 2007 at 8:13 am
The ambassador is a nice hotel. It’s in bum-town, though. So… if you draw a scene at night make sure to include some of the “locals.” heh.
In Oklahoma you have to get a marriage license to be married, however some people do it after their formal wedding ceremony. All Guy and Stasia would have to do is go down to the court house and get the paperwork.
May 28th, 2007 at 10:40 am
To anyone still worrying about needing permission to use locations, it’s my understanding that the only reason why films need permission to use locations for short periods of time is because the property owner(s) can be held responsible for any injuries that happen at that location. For longer shooting times I believe that you usually have to get some kind of insurance as well.
The matter of trademarked or copyrighted names is apparently a minor one when it comes to using locations.
acctualy the property owners cant be held responcible so long as the building or location was safe befor filming, the film company is held responcible and they pay large insurance fees, the same is true of small indipendant films.
you need permission because the property is owned by someone else- just like you would need permission to use someones car or clothes, makeup ect.
also you need permission to photograph or film if you can see the name of a building or business (not inc tourists
ect)
at the end of the day as has been stated already the chances of the hotel doing anything is small to none- and when this is filmed they will either try to film in the ambassador (which will be great advertising) or film in a different hotel or create a set to look like a hotel (strangly the least likely option)
May 28th, 2007 at 11:46 am
I don’t know Oklahoma law, but, most usually, religious figures have the authority to perform marriages, and all that is needed is submitting the necessary paperwork afterward. I think.
Really, this is a non-issue. If they want to be married, they can go to a county clerk’s office and get married, whatever the status of the prior ceremony. If they don’t, they can do the same and get it anulled.
May 28th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
“I don’t know Oklahoma law, but, most usually, religious figures have the authority to perform marriages, and all that is needed is submitting the necessary paperwork afterward. I think.” Apparently you still need to get the license in advance. The cleric then signs and submits it after the ceremony. What is not clear is what happens if you don’t get the license in advance - presumably the whole thing is just a charade, legally. What the Church thinks is another matter. In theory, they could be married according to the Church, but not according to Oklahoma.
May 28th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
“Just out of curiousity, how much research did you have to do before starting work on this, Bobby?”
Essentially zero. The legality of their marriage is a non-issue to this story, as I’ve said many times. Doesn’t matter at all if they’re legally married or not, but it does have to be briefly addressed in the story, since several of the characters are wondering about it and think it is a big deal at the moment.
About the law: There actually is a Title 43, Section 4, which I found in a quick Google search about Oklahoma marriage law just a few days ago. There may be certain ways around that, though, I don’t know. And obviously if they want to be married they could easily go do that, but they’re not actually going to go make it official, or at least not any time soon — no reason for it. All that matters, at the moment at least to Stasia, is the public perception.
May 28th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
haha! I love the panel in which they are both drinkinh coffee… heh heh….
May 28th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
“Well, I do want them to seem like morons, yes, which is why the description for Panel 5 in the script begins with “Back to a close up of the lawyers, who are now simultaneously lifting cups of coffee to their mouths to take a drink, looking like they’re doing anything but ‘efforting.’ “”
I ‘unno, Bobby sir. That made it seem to me that they were on top of things. You know, like, “Pft, I’ve SO got this covered. *Sip*”
And just wondering… Considering the dedication that “Stasia” made in her book, does that mean her dad is the one that ghostwrites her autobiographies? XD
May 28th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
“Headquarters?”
The only time i have found the following appropriate in use:
LOL!!!
May 28th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Lord, “Ambassador Hotel” is such a generic name anyway… The first google page shows 8 different hotels named Ambassador Hotel. The most famous one, of course, is the one which was recently torn down in Los Angeles, which was the site of Bobby Kennedy’s assassination, and the location of the famous Hollywood hang-out, the Coconut Grove.
Having been on the wrong side of a cease and desist letter before, really it comes down to how strong the brand is that you’re mentioning, and how you are using it. For brands, like say, Dare America, they pay third parties to actively look for people to smack down, whether they’d actually win in court or not.
I agree any indie creator who worries about this needs to get a new set of self-importance in the right size…
May 28th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Love the story hope you could e-mail me to tell if there are new updates coming and thanks!!!
May 28th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
The lateness on the next one is entirely my fault. Still haven’t even sent Eisu the script, gonna do that in about an hour, though. My guess is we’ll have it for Wednesday, but I’m not positive.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:48 am
okay people, since there’s a debate about ‘copyright’ and stuff… i am going to use some examples as to why Bobby and Eisu won’t get in trouble… my first is Marvel comics: Spiderman’s set in New York, Fantastic Four is set in New York, XMen is set in Massachusetts, the buildings they work in may not be real but they throw around real places (in those cities) all the time… the have been doing so for, what, about 40-50 years? My second example is Manga… i don’t know how many times i have read a manga where something takes place or happens at Tokyo Tower, the character goes to a shinto shrine, a certain festival takes place during the storyline… The point is that writers (and artists) do it all the time… and there are others that for ‘fear’ change the name of something or create a whole new world… its really all up to the creator’s and how they want to set up the comic in the long run…
May 29th, 2007 at 3:53 am
Yeah, it’s a totally pointless issue. The WORST case scenario, and this has almost ZERO chance of happening, is that at some point we have to change the name of the hotel, and that’s nothing bad at all. So who gives a crap? Total non-issue.
May 29th, 2007 at 4:39 am
Just so people know, I did not change the comic names in NPP for ‘fear’ of copyright issues but it’s just for canonical issues… if I were to do Wolverine or Batman or Superman side-comics in NPP (a la Tigrine), then it can’t really be canon cos it’d just be a fan comic and that’s not fun… by parodying the characters, that gives it a more canon feel where I can do anything I want with them and not feel like it’s just a fan comic.
May 29th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Using other people’s characters is actually something to be afraid of doing, though, much more than just some real life hotel. It depends on exactly how it’s done, of course, but in general you’re much more likely to get a cease and desist order for using someone else’s fictional characters than you are for using some real life business.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
“Efforting?” WTF?
May 29th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Question for Bobby…is this still a “work in progress,” or do you have the entire plot mapped out at this point? (Not that I think you need to make any changes…I’m just curious about your creative process.)
May 29th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
I love the lawyers with their lattes.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
For most of the stories that I write, I have them almost entirely plotted out before even writing Page 1, but that’s unfortunately not the case for “Marry Me.” I had the story of the first 24 pages totally planned over four years ago, but to this day I haven’t fully decided on a lot of the middle and ending. I have known the final scene, though, since before I started writing it, and I guess I basically have the last few scenes mostly planned, but I still have to figure out the best way to get to that point. I pretty much know what’s going to happen in the next 12 pages or so, but then I’ll have a lot of big decisions to make and things to come up with. It’s also tough because it’s only scheduled for about 80 pages. Ideally it would be more like 120, but I was concerned about Eisu’s availability and I wanted to make sure I could have his art for the full graphic novel. It’s not a problem, though. The screenplay will simply have a lot more stuff in it than the comic.
May 29th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
I do love this story. It has made me tee-hee and clap my hands. I want Parker something bad. Danke.
But seriously, it’s crazy. The public is stupidly obsessed with celebrities for the most part. I can see the tabloids now.
“SCANDAL! Stasia gets married, fanboys commit suicide!”
A massive revolt starts, there’s fighting and fire and fury in the streets! Looting, rape, and pillaging abound. And who can stop it?
My guess would be either Abobo, Cheney-Tron, Those 2 lawyer-bots in a mecha, a gaggle of ninjas (or pirate-ninjas), or some fellow threatening to flog everybody with a pair of rubber gloves, or perhaps a nice, wooden cooking spoon.
Yours for random thoughts and love of comics,
Goat
May 30th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
So, I’m not sure if this has been asked/answered but why doesn’t Janny wear a ring, is she married?
May 30th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Janny’s not married, no. (Been asked, yeah.)
May 30th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
Hahahahaha OMG my favourite part of this page is the lawyers. I’m final year Law myself and I just saw SHITLOADS of myself and my uni friends in those two. Right down to the takeaway coffee. XD
Awesome comic guys! Keep up the good work! ^_^
May 31st, 2007 at 1:45 pm
I’m really glad I didn’t miss any updates while I was in the hospital.
May 31st, 2007 at 3:34 pm
You okay, Totz?
May 31st, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Did I post before? cant remeber. In-case I didnt, excelent comic.
About copyrights, you cant copyright a name or word. What you copyright is the right to use that name for your item, place of bussines, etc. So as long asy Bobby isnt trying to start up a hotel by the same name, its alright. YEah, some corporations do take it to extremes, but they realy dont have any stable ground under their feet when they do.
At least thats how I understand the issue.
August 8th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
This isn’t copyright law but trademark law. “Hotel Ambassador” is their trademark; the real question is whether Bobby’s use of the mark is an infringing use or a non-infringing use. No guarantee, but it’s pretty unlikely that this use of the mark is an infringing use.
February 6th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Incidentally, under Title 43, it’s quite possible that they are married, if the guy marrying them happens to be an Oklahoma judge.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Yeah, but he’s not a judge, he’s a priest. That’s different, right? Also, “We’re currently efforting that information”…ROTFL!